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rolande to Porthos MVM, 2014-Jul-2 3:43 pm Re: An installation nightmare, is it really difficult?If you've ever been to a tech garage and seen their morning meetings and performance reviews, then you have room to talk. Granted, in general, a few techs out of each garage are just naturally better than others at resolving technically difficult issues and staying within their allotted time per customer install/repair. But for the majority who fall in the middle of the road, it is impossible to achieve the numbers and still satisfy the customers. So, the tech is going to preserve their job first by meeting the measurable targets. The customer will nearly always come second to the tech being able to meet those numbers. If you happen to be the last ticket of the day and the tech doesn't mind putting in a little extra time to ensure it is done 100% right and doesn't have anywhere to be, they may take care of you if they haven't already been so de-motivated that they don't give a crap anymore. It is possible that every garage is run a little differently, but from what I've gathered over the years there is a running theme of putting much stronger focus on metrics that matter more to AT&T's operational costs at the expense of legitimate customer satisfaction. |
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TestBoy Premium Member 2014-Jul-2 9:26 pm If you've ever been to a tech garage and seen their morning meetings and performance reviews, then you have room to talk. THIS ^^ Okay guys..... ever been on a pip? I got caught because a manager came behind me and checked on that job at random... the woman had no complaint and loved that I solved her problem. What do you think happened after that? Yes, techs have to deal with this kind of BS. |
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| datguy11 to John Thaner Anon 2014-Jul-2 10:45 pm Tell you what - when ever I'm dissatisfied with the service I get, wherever it is, I do my best to make sure the supervisor knows it. A technician who acted in the manner described by the original poster would have been written up or I would have cancelled on the spot In the telco world that doesnt mean squat. What happens when the supervisor doesnt care? Or he pays you lip service? How do you know he is paying you lip service? You Dont.. You think your letter or call to the "supervisor" will magically fix things from that point on, what you do not realize is there have been 1000, no 10,000 ,no 100,000 letters written before yours....and probably with the same issues,concerns, comments, and complaints. Uverse techs are poorly paid, have a ridiculous drawn out pay progression, and sometimes cannot go home until all jobs have been hit. When you have a system like that , that is controlled by the employer, what do you expect? to be clear I am not saying that poor service is acceptable, but when you have a system that discourages good service in order to meet metrics (or even make a living) , the boys in the Ivory Tower know that, and to an extent condone it...Or they would have done something about that 99,999 letters ago.... |
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TestBoy Premium Member 2014-Jul-2 10:47 pm the boys in the Ivory Tower know that, and to an extent condone it And CWA/IBEW do nothing. |
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| 15444104 (banned) | 15444104 (banned) to TestBoy Member 2014-Jul-2 11:11 pm Re: An installation nightmare, is it really difficult?@TestBoy and or datguy11 Can either of you speak to how those metrics for technician performance used to work before the 1984 break up of AT&T? Also interesting take on Westel (Western Electric) phones. When Made in the USA really mean something. Listen at about 6:28 when they talk about "light technology" they don't even call it fiber optics. Wow! I would have LOVED to had a line technician job with Ma Bell back in the 50s-70s. A great job back then. The Waaay back machine showing some technician scenes from the 1970s! |
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TestBoy Premium Member 2014-Jul-2 11:26 pm Can either of you speak to how those metrics for technician performance used to work before the 1984 break up of AT&T? I cannot, no. |
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chip89 to TestBoy Premium Member 2014-Jul-2 11:44 pm & For $85 dollars!!! A cord is $4 on amazon! OH Boo who AT&T gets that $ every two seconds! »www.amazon.com/Belkin-Se ··· 9W1JF4ZP |
· actions · 2014-Jul-2 11:44 pm · | |
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| Porthos to rolande Anon 2014-Jul-2 11:45 pm So, it's nothing but excuses. All there is here is attempted justification for poor workmanship, lack of quality, and doing half-assed work. You all tell us it's a terrible job, nobody appreciates you, the pay sucks, blah, blah, blah. Look in the mirror and you will find the one person who can fix it all. |
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chip89 to TestBoy Premium Member 2014-Jul-2 11:47 pm you know if I was you I would buy a few cords form amazon & keep the email. If you did the same thing & he tries to blame you show him that & tell him to go pound sand! |
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| 15444104 (banned) | 15444104 (banned) to Porthos Member 2014-Jul-2 11:48 pm @Porthos... The fact that it used to be quite different decades ago and customer service WAS overall excellent back then (until the 70s) proves that something is wrong with how AT&T is doing things at the technician level today. |
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chip89 to 15444104 Premium Member 2014-Jul-2 11:52 pm Back when AT&T cared about the World! With out Bell labs our World would not be like it is today! |
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| my thoughts to 15444104 Anon 2014-Jul-3 12:51 am At&T has not really existed as a local provider since 1984 break up by the goverment. SBC...ATT...BAU. |
· actions · 2014-Jul-3 12:51 am · | |
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Cisco Meraki MR42 |
rolande to Porthos MVM, 2014-Jul-3 2:47 am So, it's nothing but excuses. All there is here is attempted justification for poor workmanship, lack of quality, and doing half-assed work. You all tell us it's a terrible job, nobody appreciates you, the pay sucks, blah, blah, blah. Look in the mirror and you will find the one person who can fix it all. Nope. It is a big company acting like a big company with mostly a duopoly. The techs either follow the strict rules or get written up and eventually get fired if they are caught again. They have less than zero power to change anything. Even less power than the customer who can vote with their wallet and they still mostly shrug their shoulders at that. Oh well. It won't change unless there is a directly measurable impact to overall revenue. If you are costing them too much operationally, even for a single incident, they'd almost rather see you discontinue service. Operational cost reduction is more important than an individual isolated satisfied customer. Your perspective is only valid in smaller companies that do not have monopolies or duopolies to their advantage. |
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Asus RT-N66 |
ILpt4U Premium Member 2014-Jul-3 1:05 pm I had been hesitant to comment on this thread, but all the metrics vs customer service/doing the job right talk has tempted me I don't give a damn about the efficiency target. No where in my job description does it say I have to make an efficiency target. It says to install and repair IP-based U-Verse services and provide customer service. Thats what I do I have been on countless PIPs, had manager ride withs, and the response I usually get is "you do good work." I dare the Company to fire me for an efficiency metric. When the arbitrator gives me my job back with full back pay after the Company makes the arguement that "I didnt do my job fast enough" while paying respect to company safety policy, service standards, and customer service, and the Company pays full backpay, then at least there will be on paper precedent of all this BS Do the job, do it right, be the best in the industry. Union/IBEW is supposed to mean damn good quality craftsmanship and professionalism. I can't imagine CWA does not want to exhibit the same professional pride And I routinely call out hack jobs and hack techs to the local crew. I dont stand for it. I dont throw em under the bus to the boss, but you bet I call their asses out on it, privately at first, and if the crap continues, then in front of the rest of thr crew. Crap work can be fixed, but not by some stupid PIP plan that encourages more crap, rushed work |
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Wily_One Premium Member 2014-Jul-3 1:30 pm From initial installation onward, I've gotten good service from AT&T, even when they have had to spend hours to do the job. In the original install, the poor guy was here for a good 6-8 hours. RG line, DVR line, plus 3 STB lines all had to be run. For the times I've needed service calls, they're thorough and call in the line guys when needed, then following up to make sure all is good. The last time I had an issue it was vexing and they had to come out multiple times. In the end I was getting calls from the Office of the President checking on my issue and on the return visit the Manager accompanied his senior tech. (Turned out I had multiple line taps & they had trouble locating the 3rd one.) Bottom line is I'm happy with the service I've gotten, and have not felt the techs were "in a rush". |
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| Porthos to rolande Anon 2014-Jul-3 5:10 pm Your perspective is only valid in smaller companies that do not have monopolies or duopolies to their advantage. My perspective comes from working four years for one of the worst - The US Postal Service, today more than twice as big as AT&T and when I worked there, more than three times as big. So spare me the rhetoric about not knowing anything about big companies. After less than one year I knew the USPS was not a place for me. Good pay, great benefits - yes. Job sucked, mostly because of management. Union sucked - mostly because of union management. So why did I stay four years? Because that is how long it took me to complete the college degree I had started several years before. I did that working full-time, going to school part-time, and raising a family. I knew I would need something to qualify me for a better job and get me out of the Postal Service. And I certainly don't think that what I did was anything special. I saw a number of others doing the same thing. I still see people, and not all younger ones either, going to school to better themselves all the time. So why don't all you "I hate it here." and "Management/the job sucks." get off your backsides and go get the training/education you need for a better job? It can be done. Many people have done it and are doing it right now. I still say all you are doing is throwing up crap in order to justify not doing what should be done in order to provide the service the customer pays for. Period. |
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Asus RT-N66 |
ILpt4U Premium Member 2014-Jul-3 8:37 pm So why don't all you "I hate it here." and "Management/the job sucks." get off your backsides and go get the training/education you need for a better job? It can be done. Many people have done it and are doing it right now. Because you basically have to quit the job to get any training/education. Working hours are often 8 AM to around 9 PM. That doesn't leave a lot of time for night classes. OT isn't an "extra" for U-Verse Premise Techs, it is a requirement The only "cap" is 17 hours of OT for the week, at least under the IBEW contract, but a 57 hour week is a long week Then, for the pay, finding the $$$ for classes is expensive, and if you use the Company funding for classes, you agree to work for AT&T for 2 years upon the funds being paid out Not too mention, many of the Benefits are pretty good, so even if you pay for classes/training, get another job, etc, there is no promise it will be better, that you will make more money, and you might be paying more for health insurance and the like I am not trying to make excuses here, but the Company's management structure really pushes employees in a manner that does not encourage high quality standards. Personal work ethic keeps some techs doing great work, but if all techs did that, then the regular work day would be 8 AM-Midnight If the Company really wants high quality craftsmanship, then schedule 7-8 hours of work per tech, not 10+ hours, which does not account for time driving between jobs, extra work required beyond the allotted time, etc Techs in my area are not being *directly* pushed for the efficiency metric at present (though that could change at any time), but having techs routinely work 12+ hour days ends up with techs taking short cuts so they can see their wives, gfs, families, friends, etc, just to get the day over with and the jobs cleared for the day, to avoid a write up for "Customer Mistreat" by leaving overbooked jobs in the job pool. Its funny, the scheduling department or managers never get this "Customer Mistreat" for overbooking the load, but the Techs get it if they can't cover the overbooked load |
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| Zoder | Zoder to ILpt4U Member 2014-Jul-3 9:57 pm ILpt4U aren't most new U-Verse installers these days hired as non-union prem techs? So how does that work out when they are working in right to work states and can be fired for any reason including bad metrics? |
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ILpt4U Premium Member 2014-Jul-3 10:06 pm ILpt4U aren't most new U-Verse installers these days hired as non-union prem techs? So how does that work out when they are working in right to work states and can be fired for any reason including bad metrics? As far as a I know, all U-Verse installers are Union Members now -- most are CWA, and in IL/NW IN, IBEW In the old BellSouth, the Premise Techs/now Wire Techs were originally hired non-Union, but CWA has successfully unionized them, so they are Union members now I don't have too much first hand experience with Right to Work states (IL is not one), but isn't the Union still required to represent you, even if you resign the Union? And the Company also still has to respect the Collective Bargaining Agreement as well? |
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| Zoder | Zoder to Porthos Member 2014-Jul-3 10:08 pm I still say all you are doing is throwing up crap in order to justify not doing what should be done in order to provide the service the customer pays for. Period. I think it's naive to ignore that this is the culture that AT&T creates from the top down. Corporate doesn't care aout customer service, they care about numbers on a spreadsheet. I don't think most of their techs apply for the position with the goal of doing a lousy job. But if they are told you have to meet these metrics or you will be fired, most are not going to play the hero. Especially in this job market. |
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| | Zoder to ILpt4U Member 2014-Jul-3 10:16 pm As far as a I know, all U-Verse installers are Union Members now -- most are CWA, and in IL/NW IN, IBEW In the old BellSouth, the Premise Techs/now Wire Techs were originally hired non-Union, but CWA has successfully unionized them, so they are Union members now I don't have too much first hand experience with Right to Work states (IL is not one), but isn't the Union still required to represent you, even if you resign the Union? And the Company also still has to respect the Collective Bargaining Agreement as well? Last I saw on these boards the Bellsouth Premise Techs were non-union. Glad to see that's changed. Only Kentucky was not a right to work state in the old Bellsouth territory. You are right about the union rules in right-to-work states. At least that's how it works for the teachers union in Florida. So I assume it covers all unions. Of course your position has to be part of the union for that to apply which prem techs didn't fall under. |
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| 15444104 (banned) | 15444104 (banned) to ILpt4U Member 2014-Jul-3 10:46 pm Thanks for all your hard work out in the field ILpt4U! It says plenty that in spite of AT&T corporate culture that plenty of linesmen and prem techs still do the best job possible and provide excellent customer service. I have also personally experienced this with the field techs. I have AT&T DSL but I needed not only a new home run from a node, but they also had to install a new node as well! The line techs came out on a Saturday evening and did a fine job, I did NOT ask for that service, I expected them to arrive during normal business hours and was very surprised but pleased. I was not home at the time I was at work, and the two line techs actually called me when they arrived, and followed up when they completed the job as well. Came home and everything was done perfectly. Even the AT&T trenching group was out on Monday to properly bury my home run. I asked this earlier but I think the question got lost in the fray.... Can ANYONE with AT&T tell us about how things worked BEFORE the break up in 1984 with regards to these metrics we are talking about. Where are the Ma Bell Veterans??? |
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TestBoy to Zoder Premium Member 2014-Jul-3 10:48 pm Last I saw on these boards the Bellsouth Premise Techs were non-union. They are now.... per many techs I have talked to. What they do tell me is that CWA is screwing them over in the carolinas tho...... not hard to believe. |
· actions · 2014-Jul-3 10:48 pm · | |
| Zoder | Zoder to 15444104 Member 2014-Jul-3 10:55 pm You might not even have to go that far back. How did things work at Bellsouth, Pacific Telesis, and Ameritech before SBC took them over? |
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ILpt4U Premium Member 2014-Jul-3 11:02 pm You might not even have to go that far back. How did things work at Bellsouth, Pacific Telesis, and Ameritech before SBC took them over? The "old timers" that worked under IL Bell/Ameritech tell me that the GPS tracking on the trucks was instituted right after SBC's purchase of Ameritech Gotta remember, though, back before the 2000s, LandLine phones were king -- those cell phones weren't everywhere yet When residences and businesses all had at least 1 phone line, and often more, the money was rolling for the Phone Company, from the Wireline side! I still say breaking up the old AT&T/Bell System was a huge mistake by the gov't -- but that is another story for another day. But that is also second hand, as the breakup was right about the time I entered this world. But from what I've read and heard of the old Bell System, as well as all the money that was spent in the Investigation, Trial, breakup, and then subsequent mergers, that was a lot of money spent on "doing business" as opposed to investing it back into the Workforce and/or into the Facilities/Plant. My feeling: If the old Bell had not been broken, I think we'd all have Fiber already (and would have had for 5-10 years), and we'd still be #1 in Telecom in the world. But the hypothetical game is fun, because you can project anything you want :P |
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chip89 Premium Member 2014-Jul-3 11:40 pm That good did the breakup do? AT&T is now the same size but even worse! & the monopoly of cable in the US. |
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DataRiker to Porthos Premium Member 2014-Jul-4 2:18 am Your perspective is only valid in smaller companies that do not have monopolies or duopolies to their advantage. My perspective comes from working four years for one of the worst - The US Postal Service This is a joke right? This is one of the easiest jobs in America. And as for getting another job, yea it was real easy. I had to sell all my belongings waiting for my food stamps to become active so I could f*cking eat. Oh, and all the while living with relatives so I'm not homeless. Can't sleep because I couldn't so much as get an interview for months at over 50+ places I applied. Just how stupid are you anyway? |
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TestBoy to ILpt4U Premium Member 2014-Jul-4 10:56 am When I worked for Bell Atlantic we did not have GPS units in the trucks. That was post NYNEX merger. The only data in use besides T1s was modems and fax machines. We all thought cell phones were a fad... for stock brokers and doctors. ALL the now merged RBOCs can still make bank on wireline. |
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| Porthos to DataRiker Anon 2014-Jul-4 11:16 am This is a joke right? This is one of the easiest jobs in America. That just shows your ignorance. If I put your butt in front of a MPLSM station and made you key one mailpiece every second for a full shift you would be crying your pitiful eyes out. Try it and then bring your whining ass back here and tell us just how easy that was. If you don't like that then memorize an entire zipcode of 1040 different seperations and key those from memory. The only difference is that you only have to do 50 per minute instead of 60. It's the do-nothings like you that make it tough for the good techs to get things done. Like I said you sure didn't get your job based on talent or personality. |
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